Reform is not racist, Welsh leader says in heated election debate

Reform's Welsh leader has said his party is not racist in a heated Senedd election debate where leaders clashed over immigration.

Dan Thomas made the comments while criticising the Welsh government's Nation of Sanctuary policy, which aims to help refugees and asylum seekers placed in Wales to integrate and access public services.

Meanwhile Thomas challenged all the main parties to publish the full costs of their promises to voters ahead of next week's Senedd election on 7 May.

Immigration is not something which the Welsh government controls, but in recent years it has had policies to assist asylum seekers and refugees, which it has labelled the "Nation of Sanctuary".

Official figures say it makes up a small proportion of the government's overall budget, with the vast majority of the cash being spent on supporting Ukrainians in Wales who are fleeing the war with Russia.

The debate on Tuesday evening saw strong exchanges on the policy, which is opposed by both the Conservatives and Reform.

Wales Green leader Anthony Slaughter accused the two parties of playing a "dangerous game" in which immigrants get blamed for "decaying" public services.

Reform's Thomas rejected this: "Listening to the majority of the people in Wales isn't a dangerous game.

"It's called democracy and it's called listening to people."

He was challenged on comments made when he was leader of Barnet Council in 2021 that it had a "proud history of providing sanctuary".

"That was before the floodgates were opened", he said.

"The fact that I welcomed that showed that we're not racist, we're very reasonable people".

Banks is not standing in the Senedd election and told BBC Wales that his comment was " a joke", adding that "Plaid have understandably lost their sense of humour".

Thomas did not respond directly but said: "I've had my Welshness questioned by supporters of Plaid Cymru. They've called me a plastic Taffy because I happened to live in England.

"I've been called an English nationalist, because I happen to be a member of Reform. I am Welsh through and through".

Plaid Cymru leader Rhun ap Iorwerth criticised Thomas' response, saying: "Outright racism from a righthand man of Nigel Farage and Dan Thomas chooses to play the victim."

Referencing the Nation of Sanctuary policy, Tory Senedd leader Millar said: "The Welsh government needs to spend the money on the things that it is responsible for."

Welsh Liberal Democrats leader Jane Dodds accused Reform of "stoking division", while Welsh Labour leader and First Minister of Wales Eluned Morgan said: "I think it's really important that what we do is we address the reality, not the myth, that the Conservatives and Reform are trying to create.

"The numbers of asylum-seekers in Wales are incredibly low."

Parties rule out working with Reform

No party is expected to win a majority of seats in the next Welsh Parliament, and some level of co-operation will be needed to form Wales' next government.

There have been calls for parties on the left to work together to lock Reform out of power, including from former first minister Mark Drakeford earlier in the campaign.

And on Tuesday night the leaders of Plaid Cymru, Liberal Democrats, Labour and the Greens all said they could not work with Dan Thomas' Reform party to form a government - but did not rule out working with each other.

Plaid's ap Iorwerth said Reform stood in "diametric opposition to all the values that I stand for".

Labour's Morgan said she did not think her party had "enough in common" with Reform, and Green leader Slaughter said his party will not work with "Reform or the Conservatives in any shape or form".

Dodds said the Lib Dems would also not work with Reform or the Tories.

"We are willing to be a responsible partner to stop Reform UK trashing our services," she said.

Thomas said Reform would work with any party "that will help deliver our manifesto".

He accused Labour and Plaid of stitching up the new voting system for the expanded Senedd "to make sure they end up in power one way or another".

Tory Senedd leader Millar also said would not rule out working with Reform or any other party if it could help deliver Tory policies like cutting income tax.

The Institute for Fiscal Studies (IFS) has said the incoming Welsh government will face a severe financial squeeze, with day-to-day funding and investment growth slowing significantly.

The experts warn that many of the manifesto pledges by the parties will be likely to require tax rises or cuts to public services.

In the sometimes bad tempered debate, the calls for the leaders to fully publish their spending plans were greeted with a round of applause by the studio audience.

None of the six larger parties have released full details, with independent analysts criticising the lack of transparency on how manifesto pledges would be funded.

Thomas said he would publish his plans if the others would follow suit, saying: "I challenge every leader on this panel to publish your costings.

"Ours are ready to go so we can have a full transparent election."

The Tory and Labour leaders both said they would publish the cost of their plans, while Plaid leader ap Iorwerth Green leader Slaughter said some theirs already had been.

Only Welsh Lib Dem leader Dodds said she would not publish her spending plans, saying she knew she would not end up as first minister and she instead wanted to "influence government".

Additional reporting by Mark Palmer