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With the club season over, England players George Williams and Jack Welsby are focusing on their next challenge: an Ashes series against the world champions. The pair will take centre stage at Wembley against Australia on 25 October. We met up in London to discuss the first Ashes series since 2003.
George, as captain, what will you say to players like Jack who have waited so long to face Australia?
Williams: “The last time we played them over here was 2016, which is a long time ago. I was young and came off the bench. It was a good experience. But Jack knows – he’s been around the block long enough now, won Super League titles and played against the NRL’s best, so I don’t have to tell him too much. The younger ones? Probably just enjoy it. They don’t come around often. You want to test yourself against the best in the world. We want to knock them off their perch.”
Has it been frustrating not getting to face the Kangaroos?
Welsby: “Yeah, frustrating is one way to think about it but it’s also exciting. It’s been building up to this for a long time now. Obviously we missed an opportunity to play them in the World Cup. Since then we’ve beaten Tonga and Samoa. So New Zealand and Australia are the next stepping stone. We’re ready to take that leap and challenge the best in the world.”
Most England players have done well in the NRL or World Club Challenge, and the Kangaroos are missing a few stars. Have they lost their aura?
Welsby: “They’re human; they’ve got two arms, two legs and want to beat us the same amount as we want to beat them. No matter what names they have on their backs, we’re playing Australia. So, whether it’s Nathan Cleary or his understudy, we’re going to be ready for him. That’s the mentality Waney [head coach Shaun Wane] wants: don’t fear anyone or the occasion. Just go after it. We’re gonna do that.”
Williams: “The Aussies see State of Origin as bigger than playing for Australia, which I find very strange. Some NRL lads were not that bothered about playing for Australia. I found that a weird one. I couldn’t get my head around it.”
Rumour is you’re going back to the NRL, George. What do they think of English players?
Williams: “Rumour! They think they’re superior to us. And, to be honest, Australia have beaten England regularly across a long period of time. I can’t remember the last time we beat them, so there’s a reason they have that confidence/arrogance. They think they’re the best in the world, but this is the best England team we’ve had in a long, long time. So we’re coming for them.”
You haven’t trained together all year but what do you do in England get-togethers
Williams: “We just enjoy each other’s company, welcome the new lads, get a feed together. Sometimes we have a guest speaker but last time Waney just showed us clips that we wouldn’t have been proud of. Some would have come in pumped up and soon got brought down to reality. Waney’s a tough taskmaster. He’s good at what he does and he’s not shy. It doesn’t matter who you are, how many games you’ve played or reputation. If you’re not meeting the standard, he’ll say it. It’s not personal. He was showing us what’s not England standard and what’s not going to be good enough to beat Australia. As much as you don’t want to hear it or see it, it’s only going to improve us.”
Defence supposedly wins titles but England lost the 2017 World Cup final 6-0. Is more maverick stuff going to beat Australia?
Williams: “It’s a bit of both. You’ve got to defend well to win in general, and Shaun Wane is obsessed with how we defend. But, given the players we have, we shouldn’t lack for point-scoring. We’ve got structures but sometimes you’ve just got to play rugby and we do that pretty well. It’s hard, because you’re playing against better players, but I love playing for England because you’re also playing with better players. They see the opportunities that you’re seeing and they make you look good.”
Assuming you’ll be at full-back Jack, do you see yourself as a third half-back?
Welsby: “I just chime in when I see an opportunity. You’ve got to pick your timings right. International rugby’s a bit less structured because you don’t have as much time. We all play similar patterns at club level, but we’ve got to play more off-the-cuff rugby – pick the short side, stuff like that – which really suits me and George. If he gets a chance, that’s Mikey Lewis’s sort of game, too. Harry Smith tells us when to calm it down and park it. So we’ve got a really good balance.”
Is it difficult for club rivals to become teammates in so few sessions?
Welsby: “I think so, at the start. When we first came in for the 2022 World Cup it was a new group and we didn’t really know each other that well. Once you prove yourself on the field, the lads take you under their wing. It’s really easy to go back into camp now. The new boys will be a bit on edge and nervous, but they’ll soon get used to it. It’s always good fun.”
Williams: “Everybody loves going into camp. We work hard but when we get a day off, I’ll go see my kids for an hour and am happy to go back. It’s just so good.”
Do you feel like a senior player now?
Welsby: “I won’t say senior, but I’ve been around enough to get used to the coaching staff. If you don’t know Waney, he’s pretty daunting. You’ve got to be on the ball and train hard, be physical and look for what he wants you to do. But now I know him and what he wants, I don’t have to overthink it and can enjoy it.”
How do you feel about England going straight into the Ashes having not played for 11 months?
Williams: “It’s good. There will be new additions, but we’ve been building, setting standards for a couple of years now. I want mid-season Tests because I love playing for England, but we’ve been playing France and they have not been ultra beneficial, with blowout scores. Half the players aren’t there anyway and they’ve not reflected our form at the back end of seasons so I don’t think we should do it.”
Which England player is very different than the public might think?
Williams: “I’d go Morgan Knowles. He’s great to play alongside but then he’s just really quiet, relaxed, keeps himself to himself. He knows who he is, says what he needs to say. But when he plays, he’s like a terminator.”
Jack, you’ve only played a few minutes at Wembley – when you came off the bench and helped St Helens win the 2021 Challenge Cup final – so what are you looking forward to most?
Welsby: “The whole thing. That first game is going to be massive. I don’t think you can look past it. It’s been such a long time coming now, I almost can’t wait to get it get out of the way. When you get a result, you’re going to have friendships for life. That’s one thing that drives us: it’s not just the amazing history we’re going to create, it’s the memories – and what we’re going to do when we celebrate.”
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